Don’t Spam Suzy Homemaker:
Cultural Factors in the Spam Wars.
Cultural Factors in the Spam Wars.
Dane of Blog Strokes and Maurice of The Cayman Host both made some very good points about in comments of my post aboutborderline comment spam.. So good, I think the comments merit a full blog post. In my response, I will try to make these points:
- What is or is not spam varies from blog niche to blog niche.
- Leaving your SEO term in a blog niche may be unacceptable to the blogger for cultural and business reasons.
- Yes, you can safely link drop if the link is informational and
- Don’t spam Suzy Homemaker.
Cultural Factors Affect the “Spam / Not Spam” Designation of a Comment
I may be wrong, but I think the “battlelines” on the “SEO in name” argument are being fought between two different cultural contingents: the “Suzy Homemaker” blogs and the “SEO” blogs. The first group blogs about topics like knitting, gardening, crochet, sewing, cooking and mommy concerns. The second includes “money, blogging, seo, marketing and IT blogs.”
I realized how important cultural factors were when I read Dane’s comment, mentioned crochet:
One very big reason I switched from Akismet to Spam Karma (I notice you use it too) is that I simply don’t want uptight Jane over at crochet-blog-monthly deciding who can post comments at my blogs.
I crochet, I sew, I knit. Heck, my long time personal blog is The Knitting Fiend. I make decent money on that blog. So, I am “Crochet Jane”!
It’s probably for that reason that I know this: What is or is not “spam” varies from blog niche to blog niche. In the “money / seo / marketing / blog design” niche, leaving SEO text in the “name” box is “done”. In knitting, that’s “not done”.
This isn’t a matter or ethics, it’s a cultural difference.
Not recognizing the cultural differences can hurt you.
The cultural differences presents a danger to some who are using the dofollow list and misapplying SEO advice about link dropping and anchor text.
If we are honest, we all have noticed that some people are driving the dofollow lists on autopilot. They find a list, start at the top, and click on down. They don’t stay long at any blog. When they discover themselves reading a dull, boring page about knitting (yawn), they feel they should be “rewarded” for their benifecence and leave a nearly meaningless comment containing elenventy-seven links and an SEO name in the ‘name’ box.
You may think I’m guessing some think they deserve “rewards”; I’m not. You can read these “explanations” on some forums and in discussions that spring up in blog comments.
Ok, so the visitor thinks they “deserve” to be “rewarded”. The often high traffic “Suzy Homemaker” blogger who runs the sois dissant ‘boring’ blog disagrees. What happens then?
Suzy Homemaker edits, deletes or reports the comment to Akismet.
Suzy Homemaker and I know some SEO / Money bloggers think they think we should consider bloggers “innocent” until proven guilty and leave it alone.
Actually I do consider the borderline spammers innocent until proven guilty. Guilt or innocence is irrelevant to my decision to edit or report for a very good reason: I like money.
How borderline spam costs me money!
Bizarre, irrelevant comments with “names” like “Las Vegas Real Estate” make my knitting blog look spammy to knitters. It discourages knitters from visiting or commenting. Knitters click on adSense and Kontera ads for knitting items. That makes me money.
I’m simply not going to sacrifice my 700 - 1100 unique visitors a day because some fly-by visitor wants good SEO for the term “SEO expert”. Innocent mistake? Too bad. Any real SEO expert would advise that riddling my knitting blog with terms like “SEO Expert” might confuse my AdSense or Kontera and cause SEO ads to appear. My knitters won’t click on those. I will delete that SEO term.
So, why can’t some bloggers just lighten up?
Those of us on the “Suzy homemaker” side of the divide hear “lighten up” from the “SEO” bloggers all the time. (Why does this always remind me of dates where the guy suggested I was too hung up? 
)
I’m not going to belabor this: We aren’t going to lighten up because we want to make money.
What about at “Big Bucks Blogger”?
If you leave an “Blog Strokes” in the name box at Big Bucks Blogger, that’s fine with me!
Money/ seo/ blogging about blogging bloggers almost all think SEO terms make fine names. Dane does; Maurice does; Andy Beard does. It’s a cultural norm. Besides, an SEO name like “Blog Strokes” might hurt “The Knitting Fiend”, but it doesn’t hurt the SEO of “Big Bucks Blogger” one bit!
Are you beginning to understeand why these cultural norms exist? It had nothing to do with needing to “lighten up”. Suzy Homemaker cannot permit others to interfere with her ability to monetize her blog.
Can people link drop at dofollow blogs at all?
Of course. I think it’s generally a good idea to drop links and insert SEO terms in the name box provided it’s done judiciously.
Very few bloggers mind links provided the links are conversational and informational. If the blog isn’t in your niche, your SEO term is neither conversational nor informational. It may be disappointing to discover this, but generally speaking, blogs about SEO bore knitters to tears. (Yawn). More generally, if the topic of a blog makes you yawn, your favorite SEO term is probably not informational on that blog.
I can tell Dane “gets” this. He mentions he leaves a comment as part of a conversation: that’s what bloggers want. He also mentions he leaves “Blog Strokes” as the “name” at money blogs, but would not leave “Blog Strokes” in the name box at a non-money blog.
Like Mama Bear’s bed, he found the “just right” solution.
Is it ok to go out of your way to visit dofollow blogs?
As my sister the obstetrician would say: Abso-friggin-lutely!
I notice that both Maurice and Dane found my blog through Andy Beard’s BumpZee’s nofollow community. Visiting interesting blogs that belong to that community increases a bloggers chance of getting a “follow” links which is good for SEO. I’m doing the same thing!
So, what shouldn’t bloggers do?
Don’t grab a glass of sherry, find a “dofollow list”, pick an SEO term you want to highlight today and start marching down the list. Then, don’t “carefully craft” a “relevant” comment that contains the SEO term — leaving 1 comment every 3 minutes
This behavior tends to result in the sort of “Love” comments that Tricia saw on many of her blogs and I saw on my knitting blog. I’m sorry, but “Love” was not an informative name that told my knitting blog visitors what they would find at the end of the link.
Here’s, my message to “Love”: You make get a break from SEO bloggers who tend to be indulgent. But if you leave a comment like that on a “boring” Suzy Homemaker blog, it’s getting reported.
Dane already knew how strict “Crochet Jane” is. Notice he mentioned her severity? Crochet Jane exists. And she’ll gouge you with her size 00 metal crochet hook? Ouch!
So, be respectful when commenting– especially on your first comment.
Finally, the Wrap up
I think unsophisticated bloggers and web site owners are hurting themselves by leaving borderline spam comments. If you leave a borderline spam comment at the wrong blog — especially a high traffic, well monetized “Suzy homemaker” blog — you could find your attempt to jack SEO backfires because the blogger will report you to Akismet.
There is no point in anyone telling the “Suzy homemaker” bloggers to lighten up, or explain the SEO terms are innocent mistakes. We won’t lighten up and permit these irrelevant links on our blogs because doing so costs us money.
Yes, we know you “Love” Suzy Homemaker. But don’t try to force your affections on Suzy Homemaker. She’ll bust you.
Tags:blogging dofollow seo
Related Posts:
- Who Else Wants Links?
- Being Greedy at Dofollow Blogs Will Hurt You.
- Useless Link Detector: Is it useful?
- Six Ways to Get More Links: Tips for a Niche Blog.
Comments
9 Responses to “Don’t Spam Suzy Homemaker: Cultural Factors in the Spam Wars.”
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Another great post as usual.
Like you, I have multiple blogs (and websites). My blogs started out as a hobby and outlet to write about the things I’m passionate about. I already knew of course that I could also make money by writing about my interests.
I’ve been on the net since 1991 - back in the day of dial up modems, Windows 3.1, floppy disks, fast computers had 300mg hard drives, and bulletin boards were all the rage. I don’t think there’s much I haven’t seen or experienced on the net in that time. I’ve had websites since 1995 as well, so I also know the power of the written word and how it can rake in the cash if done properly.
So, like you, I fall into the two groups of bloggers that you’ve discussed here. I’m an experienced internet user and webmaster and I know how to promote my sites quite well. I’m also a webmaster and blogger that has many sites discussing my interests - niche sites and blogs.
Three of my sites are internet, web design and tech related. The rest are niche interests ranging from photography and gardening to exotic reptile keeping! I’ve also got general blogs that discuss a little of all my interests and my life.
I’m seeing comment spam abuse on all the sites but I think more so on my niche blogs. Perhaps those that are doing this don’t think I’m as experienced as I am or even that I’m stupid and can’t see through their tricks?
On my general blogs I’ll accept some borderline SEO type names and links. After all I do occasionally write tech and blogging related posts there too. On my niche blogs - no. I don’t want “Internet SEO” on my gardening, celebrity or photography blog. As you said it can interfere with MY money making ability.
I might be inclined to give someone bonus points if they came up with a SEO term that fit those blogs and their own sites - how about Celebrity blogger secrets for my celebrity blog? LOL
I’m a little looser with what people use as their link name on my Tech related blogs. Most of the people that comment on those sites either leave their name (my main preference all round) or a SEO related link name that suits my blog as much as it does their own site.
Having said that, if Love, Moroccan travel, or Canadian Flowers comes around to my tech/internet blogs and starts using SEO terms that don’t suite my blog well that’s a problem there too. These people tend to stay away from my techy blogs though … maybe they’re just too boring for them.
I think there are going to be people that “get” what we’ve been trying to say, and those that will still think it’s ok to leave any kind of link on any kind of site.
The people that don’t get it will lose in the end because as you’ve said the bloggers that don’t like those links will mark them as spam and those people will either have to learn to leave the right comments and links on the right sites or stay in Akismet h*ll for a long time.
You and I and a few others are speaking out about how we feel about these links and we’ve been trying to teach those that are leaving comments mainly for links how to do it right. Whether those that are abusing the system take our advice remains to be seen.
Certainly if someones going to take a minute or more to leave a comment on any of my sites I’d hope that they are leaving the comment on a post because something I said reached them. I want real comments. Not just people dropping in to get backlinks.
That’s why I switched to your Lucia’s Linky Love do follow plugin too. Those that are consistent with their visits and comments will get do follow links plain and simple. Actually, it might just be a slower day for those that have been abusing the do follow blogs, but I’ve had less human generated comment spam today. It might be that your plugin is working! Yeah!
As for making money on our sites, Lucia … You and I tend to write long wordy (hopefully informative and interesting) posts on some of our sites. Hopefully the wordiness of our posts out weights some of the damage that badly placed seo related comment links might do to our earning potential on our blogs.
300 mg hard drives? Milligram? LOL I meant mega byte of course. LOL Blame it on my nursing background!
I think that’s a pretty exhaustive summary of what’s acceptable and what isn’t, both in your view and that of a lot of other bloggers, with a lot of sound reasoning behind it.
I think your points about ‘cultural’ differences is a very valid one and if I was to comment on a blog outside of the bubble I usually blog in, I would certainly be mindful of it. It’s a long long time since I did any crochet though, so Suzy’s probably not got to be on the lookout for me
I think it’s been a good place to air these discussions and what I like about Bumpzee is that it certainly exposes all kinds of bloggers to each other. Hopefully non techie, non SEO and non blogging about blogging types, are more likely to find and read exchanges like these in the community.
In summary I don’t think most contributors here disagree on very much at all - good manners is good manners is good manners. When visiting, be mindful that you are a guest, demonstrate a little respect for one another and act accordingly.
On another topic entirely I just noticed your Kontera plugin and will certainly check it out, looks like a very useful idea - I’ll let you know how I get on and do my bit to spread the word.
Another great post on the topic. This is very much in line with my own philosophies on SEOing comments to other peoples blogs.
One thing that we all need to remember is that when we comment on another persons blog, we are in their house, and our actions effect them more than they do us.
To be honest, I would have killed “love’s” post at any of the blogs I currently own, though I’ve owned blogs in the past where I probably would have let it stand.
One quick note, I actually saw your post on the front page of BUMPzee. My M.O. is to hit the discussion page and look for any interesting discussions, then I look at the list of recently commented blogs for anything interesting, and that’s how I found you. Glad I did. It’s great reading.
Now, since I is what I is and that’s all what I is, I know you already said this in your post in your way, but let me say it a little more explicitly.
What if Jane Crochet, Becky embroidery, Scrapbook June and Charlie Quilter ( lets not be completely sexist here
) all realized that they had some interest in each others blogs, and agreed to post comments using their names as listed instead of the boring old Jane Smith, Becky White, June Carter ( couldn’t resist ) and Charlie Johnson? What if they all left good thoughtful comments about each other’s posts and they all related to each others crafts and pointed out little similarities or differences from their own.
They wouldn’t have to know that LSI even existed or what SEo stood for. All they would have to know is that some people interested in one of their crafts would also be interested in another of their crafts, and by demonstrating a cross interest through their posting they could increase the readership at all of their blogs and never even realize that they had strengthened the SEO position of each blog by simply adding their passion to their name when making comments they would have made anyways with less effect.
By all means they should refuse me coming in and chatting about WordPress themes and using a the name of my WP design site, They should whack me if I did that. It’s not even borderline spam, it’s more akin to dumping my garbage on their lawn. But they could at the same time welcome and invite each others efforts that serve to strengthen all of them at once.
What if Jane Crochet, Becky embroidery, Scrapbook June and Charlie Quilter ( lets not be completely sexist here ;)…. )
Clearly, you are unaware of the great Knitting-Crochet rivalry. . . Nelly Knitter will certainly NOT be willing to help Jane Crochet. Jane crochet, in contrast is much more down to earth and willing to help anyone. (This is only half joking . . .)
But, yes, if the craft blogs sort of learned to understand this issue, they might be willing to permit appropriate SEO terms that don’t hurt their Adsense revenue.
Unfortunately, as an empiricist, I need to say that the “SEO word” comments we are getting are not (the dreaded) crochet bloggers dropping by to leave crochet terms on our knitting blogs. We see “mortgage”, “SEO”, “Real Estate” & etc.
For the most part, it’s not bloggers who leave these irritating comments. Bloggers have comments, so they sort of understand. (Though, some still don’t get it.)
But is there someway to communicate this to the over eager web site owners?
(Honestly, I doubt it. This is why I suspect Lucia’s Linky Love will have future versions that permit us to mass moderate with greater ease! Yes, I am an engineer. Yes, I have a ph.d. Yes, I over do. Yes, there will be more useful features!)
Them Knitters is like that, are they?
The fortunate thing, from my experience is that most of the off topic stuff like this is automated, and thus easily detectable.
For that smaller percentage that is not, I wonder if you might already have something of a solution on your hands.
Since I didn’t subscribe to an email list for updates to your comments (I just never do), I ‘m pretty sure that you are running a separate script (Your dofollow script maybe?) that emailed me thanking me for my comment, and also today on letting me know that YOU had responded to my comment.
What about a plugin that hooks the edit comments function in a way that lets you optionally send an email to the commenter. You could have a canned email that thanks them for visiting your blog and gently suggests they read some resource about properly gaining links to their sites and explains that you have edited / deleted their comment based on the SEOing they tried to do.
Now, ofcourse this has no effect on the ones who load up a list of blogs from a do follow list and goes down the list commenting, but they are going to upgrade to automated scripts soon anyways, and then SK2 will deal with them for us.
This is more for the young impressionable webmaster who read some bad advice at some open forum.
I’m a high school dropout myself (Guns and Camouflage just seemed more interesting than first period biology), but I can see lots of future for your plugin. It gives people options. And good options to boot.
I’m more of an all or nothing type, myself, but I recognize the elegance of your solution.
Good Discussion
I think this post contains some absolutely invaluable advice to ALL bloggers. Regardless if you are doing your blogging at least partially for SEO or just for the social interaction. This way, everybody wins in the long term.
Speaking of cultural differences, I could think of several “IM-gurus” who would have turned the above information into an e-book and sold it for $37
Shh, don’t tell them about this post or maybe they’ll actually do it. Ah yes, I can see the headline now: “Web 3.0 Revealed! How real blogging resulted in a bucket load of traffic and put $10.000 in my pocket in 3,5 weeks.”
Seriously though, I really appreciate your well thought out posts about this matter.
@BlogStrokes,
I’ve installed loads of plugins! Comment Relish sends an auto response the first time someone comments. The first time I received an autoreponse, I emailed the blogger and asked what plugin he used. I installed that day! I could edit the comment to say a lot, but I’m reluctant to send out broadcasts containing loads of information. People don’t read unsolicited stuff that’s long!
On the spam filters: I run Bad Behavior, SpamKarma and Akismet. (I use the SK2 extension for Akismet.) It’s great for catching spam bots. Unfortunately, companies now hire people to spam. The filters aren’t as good for that.
On the all or nothing: with plugins, I like to give people options. After all, I’m not the only one using it. Each blog has slightly different needs; each blogger has different tastes. So, I need some options. At the same time, it’s best not to give too many options of people get overloaded.
One great thing the plugin does is this: Say you get sick and need to neglect your blog. If the human comment spammers know it’s do follow, they’ll start to wallop your blog. Well, all comments that arrive since the last time you posted will be nofollow! (All the older one retain their “do” or “no” follow characteristics.)
I could have given and option to let someone make that however many days the like, but then everyone would have to decide. So, in that case Lucia just decrees 2 weeks.
So, sometimes I decide. Sometimes I give options.
@Maurice,
I think most of the bloggers in the Bumpzee community stick mostly to their niche. So they aren’t doing the “borderline” spamming and to a large extent aren’t experiencing it.
I think you can see that the fraction that are multi-hobby bloggers (like Tricia and me), are getting bombarded, and generally on our hobby blogs.
Sadly, those aren’t forums where this discussion is on topic!
@Andy– I think some IM gurus would write these long things, post them, and then publish something less useful and sell it as an IM book! Yep, the commercial would be better than the product.